Robert J. "Bob" Goebel was born in Racine, Wisconsin. He attended school there. He did not have any college when Pearl Harbor [Annotator's Note: the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on 7 December 1941] occurred. There was a rush to the recruiting offices. He had some problems because three of his brothers had already enlisted during peacetime. His parents were reluctant to see their youngest get in harm's way. He wore them down and they agreed to sign for him. His consideration at the time was what uniform he would look the best in. That gave him a choice between the Marines and the Air Corps. He lucked out in that Roosevelt [Annotator's Note: Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States] had upped the number of planes being built per year, and that meant they needed more pilots. He passed the college equivalency test. He was sworn in in April 1942. The flying schools were full, so he was given a 90 day leave [Annotator's Note: an authorized absence for a short period of time]. He got called up in August 1942. He flew the PT-19 [Annotator's Note: Fairchild PT-19 primary trainer aircraft] for primary. The San Antonio Cadet Center [Annotator's Note: Sant Antonio Aviation Cadet Center in San Antonio, Texas] was where he got preflight school. He flew the PT-19 in Corsicana [Annotator's Note: Corsicana, Texas] and then went to Greenville, Texas where he flew the BT-13 [Annotator's Note: Vultee BT-13 Valiant basic trainer aircraft; also known as the Vultee Vibrator]. He then went to Moore Field [Annotator's Note: in McCallen, Texas] to fly the AT-6 [Annotator's Note: North American AT-6 Texan advanced trainer aircraft]. That virtually guaranteed he was going to be in fighters. He was cocky and fighter flying was what he considered real flying. After graduation, he went to Panama and flew the P-39 [Annotator's Note: Bell P-39 Airacobra fighter aircraft] from June to December 1943. He shipped out for North Africa and trained in Algeria in the Spitfire Mark V [Annotator's Note: British Supermarine Spitfire fighter aircraft, model Mk V]. He flew with the 31st Fighter Group [Annotator's Note:308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force], which was one of two American Spitfire groups in North Africa. He flew the Spitfire for about 30 hours. While his group was at Castel Volturno [Annotator's Note: Castel Volturno, Italy] they got P-51s [Annotator's Note: North American P-51 Mustang fighter aircraft] and transferred to Foggia, Italy to be long-range escorts for the 15th Air Force which would be attacking South Europe.

Robert J. "Bob" Goebel says the P-39 [Annotator's Note: Bell P-39 Airacobra fighter aircraft] had a bad reputation. It had some stall characteristics and was dangerous. He enjoyed flying it but he did not care for the armament. The guns had different muzzle velocities. They had a 37mm [Annotator's Note: M4 37mm automatic cannon], a .30 caliber [Annotator's Note: Browning ANM2 .30 caliber machine gun], and a .50 caliber [Annotator's Note: Browning ANM2 .50 caliber machine gun] in the P-39K. They flew those guarding the Panama Canal. Luckily, they did not get attacked but they had a lot of crashes. Worst of all, they had structural failures. One guy took his place on a dive-bombing mission. Al Hayes [Annotator's Note: phonetic spelling; unablle to verify identity] flew way too low and pulled the tail off the plane. The P-39 had a door to get out of the canopy. He got the door off but was only halfway out when he hit the river. Those things happened. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Goebel what the transition from the P-39 to the Supermarine Spitfire fighter aircraft was like.] Night and day. The Spitfire was a very honest and nimble airplane. Speed was roughly the same. The Spitfire could out turn anything flying at that time and was fun to fly. He did rue the day he was told he would not be flying combat in Spits. His group had Eights [Annotator's Note: British Supermarine Spitfire Mk. VIII fighter aircraft] and Nines [Annotator's Note: British Supermarine Spitfire Mk. IX fighter aircraft], which were new models. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Goebel what the transition from the Spitfire to the North American P-51 Mustang fighter aircraft was like.] It was not so great. The 51 was loaded to the gills. It was not fair to compare the take-off of the two. The 51 was faster. The Spitfire, and the other continental fighters, like the 109 [Annotator's Note: German Messerschmitt Bf-109 fighter aircraft], 190 [Annotator's Note: German Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighter aircraft], and the Italian fighters, only had one to two hours of fuel. The 51 had that internally and external tanks. They [Annotator's Note: 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] could go to Ploesti [Annotator's Note: Ploesti, Romania] without stopping. Goebel was telling a Luftwaffe [Annotator's Note: German Air Force] pilot who lives in California now, that his group had flown from Italy to Ploesti and then landed in Russia. He [Annotator's Note: the German pilot] just shook his head. The Germans had a red light for low fuel. When it came on, they had 15 minutes to land, or the engine would quit. That much fuel had a tactical advantage as well. If an enemy was running out of fuel, he had to run. There is no more vulnerable position. They pretty much signed their death warrant when they turned their tail to a faster airplane. Goebel enjoyed his time in the 51. It was the best airplane at the time.

Robert J. "Bob" Goebel and his group [Annotator's Note: 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] first went to Castel Volturno [Annotator's Note: Castel Volturno, Italy] and then to San Severo [Annotator's Note: San Severo, Italy] north of Foggia, Italy. The Germans had used it for 109s [Annotator's Note: Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighter aircraft]. It was a dirt strip and the engineers put steel planking down and added a tower. When they taxied, the dust would obscure the aircraft so the crew chief rode on the wing and directed them. Goebel was close with his crew chief. He depended on him. Same for the armorer. Goebel saw some numbers of the Russia mission. There were 33,000 rounds fired with five stoppages. That is a good testimonial to the care the guns were given. They took their jobs seriously and knew that what they did had a direct outcome on air battles. He initially flew the B-model [Annotator's Note: North American P-51B Mustang fighter aircraft] which only had four .50s [Annotator's Note: Browning ANM2 .50 caliber machine gun]. They were installed at an angle. A "High-G" turn while firing the guns would jam them. They could not be recharged in the air, so if that happened, they were out of luck. One of his earlier missions, he was in a fight, got excited, and all four guns stopped. He never did that again. When the D-model [Annotator's Note: North American P-51D Mustang fighter aircraft] came out, it had six .50s set up right and the jam problem went away.

On Robert J. "Bob" Goebel's first mission [Annotator's Note: with the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force], they did not see any enemy fighters. They saw some flak [Annotator's Note: antiaircraft artillery fire] and that made him a full-blooded combat pilot. It was a great experience. They were on a milk run [Annotator's Note: slang term used by American airmen to describe an easy combat mission]. On his fourth or fifth mission, he got into a fight. It was exciting. As he gained experience, he was able to keep track of more things such as where the wingman was, where the enemy was, where the sun was, and checking his instruments. His first encounter was on a mission to Wiener Neustadt [Annotator's Note: Wiener Neustadt, Austria], south of Vienna [Annotator's Note: Vienna, Austria]. They [Annotator's Note: the Germans] put up good opposition. It is kind of a blur to this day. He remembers subsequent flights more. He had a high-degree deflection shot that he no longer attempted as he gained experience. He managed to the hit the enemy and he bailed out. He screamed over the radio that he got him and was reprimanded for that. He was 21 years old. He shot down a 109G [Annotator's Note: Messerschmitt Bf 109G fighter aircraft]. They did not run into 190s [Annotator's Note: Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighter aircraft] very often. The 109G was probably one of the better models. Of Goebel's 11 victories, ten were 109s and one was a 110 [Annotator's Note: Messerschmitt Bf 110 fighter-bomber].

The mission that sticks out the most to Bob Goebel was flown on 18 August [Annotator's Note: 18 August 1944]. There was a lessening of German resistance, and they were concentrating on the bombers. They typically put up four flights of four aircraft. The squadron [Annotator's Note: 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] commander got permission to put up four extra aircraft that would be free to roam the target area. The commander, Molland [Annotator's Note: US Army Air Forces Major Leland Phillips Molland], asked Goebel if he wanted to be the number three aircraft. Molland was from the Spitfire [Annotator's Note: British Supermarine Spitfire fighter aircraft] days. He was a cracker jack pilot and a great guy. Goebel wanted in. They flew to Ploesti [Annotator's Note: Ploesti, Romania] and Goebel saw some fast-moving dots on the Russian side, and they headed to them. They lost them and they turned toward Bucharest [Annotator's Note: Bucharest, Romania]. Goebel looked up and saw a lot of 109s [Annotator's Note: German Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighter aircraft] close to them. He guesses there were 12 to 14 of them. Goebel called a break, which is a maximum-rate turn. It gives the enemy a 90 degree shot which is almost impossible. Goebel wound up right behind a 109 and hit him with his first burst. Goebel had lost his wingman but was not under attack. He spotted a 109 heading for the deck and went after him. He gave him a burst at around 8,000 feet going fast. He jumped out but his canopy never blossomed. He fell to his death and that shook Goebel up. Goebel could not raise anybody on the radio. He had been alone before in a target area. He decided to climb and was very vulnerable. He rolled back and the airplane shook. He went full throttle and two 109s were coming after him. They went round and round, but they were not very aggressive and broke off the encounter. Goebel was not sure how much ammunition he had left. He says 21 year old pilots are not known for their good judgement and wisdom, so he tore off after them. They were in a good defensive position. Goebel rolled out and wound up where he started from. He decided to try again. He started seeing tracers. That meant he was in his last 50 rounds. He hit the enemy who went into a plowed wheat field. The other plane left. Goebel made it to 20,000 feet and raised Jim Brooks [Annotator's Note: later United States Air Force Major James L. Brooks] who came back and looked for him. Brooks had to head for home though. It was a long flight home for Goebel. His nerves were shot and he was a little nauseated. He made it back on fumes. The crew chief met him. Goebel was very late in but there were two crews still waiting. When his crew saw him, they started cheering and the other crew was down in the dumps. They looked at where he had been hit and could not find a mark on the airplane. The crew chief said it must have been the engine misfiring. If so, it was perfect timing. Goebel says he must have had Robert L. Scott's copilot flying with him that day. [Annotator's Note: Brigadier General Robert Lee Scott, Jr. His memoir is titled "God is My Co-Pilot" and was published in 1943]. Goebel got three kills that day. The next day he had to be ready to go again even though he had gotten scared out of his wits.

Ploesti [Annotator's Note: Ploesti, Romania] was different from the other targets that Robert J. "Bob" Goebel flew against [Annotator's Note: with the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force]. They had a tremendous amount of barrage flak [Annotator's Note: antiaircraft artillery fire]. Tracking flak is used with just a few guns. The barrage flak just sets up a curtain the bombers must fly through. Fighters would count the chutes of the falling bombers. They knew there were ten guys aboard. At Ploesti, they could depend on opposition. He heard that in the German flying schools, they were using horses to taxi the aircraft because they were so low on fuel. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer mentions a passage in Goebel's book about him having to use the bathroom on a mission. The book is "Mustang Ace: Memoirs of a P-51 Fighter Pilot" published in 1991.] That mission was in northern Italy. The P-51 [Annotator's Note: North American P-51 Mustang fighter aircraft] had a relief tube that vented outside. He had his parachute straps, clothes, and was in a sitting position. It was a hopeless proposition, so he did not even try it. He was hoping to get home. It was excruciating pain by the time he landed. He could not get out of the cockpit on his own. He never drank any coffee again for breakfast on missions.

Robert J. "Bob" Goebel's plane's [Annotator's Note: in the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] nickname was "The Flying Dutchman". Almost everyone had named their planes after a girlfriend or wife. Goebel had heard a story about a ship that sailed through the air that was named that. In Wisconsin, the German population called themselves Dutchmen. He found out later that the Dutch designer for the Germans during World War 1's nickname was the flying Dutchman, Tony Fokker [Annotator's Note: Anton Herman Gerard "Anthony" Fokker; aviation pioneer]. Brooks [Annotator's Note: later United States Air Force Major James L. Brooks] called his plane "January". When it got smashed up, he called his next plane "February". Brooks and Goebel were in the air together often but not as a team. Brooks was in the 307th [Annotator's Note: 307th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] and Goebel was in the 308th. They went into town together a lot. There were a lot of bomber and fighter people in Italy. There were only three Red Cross girls, and they all went with the men from the 31st Fighter Group. Jim Brooks was one of them. He was a rogue.

The 85 gallon fuselage tank [Annotator's Note: on the North American P-51 Mustang fighter aircraft] was an afterthought. It biased the weight far too aft of the CG [Annotator's Note: center of gravity]. The fuel was about 500 pounds and made the airplane fly very badly if not straight and level. Robert J. "Bob" Goebel figured if he could loiter in the target area longer, he would have plenty of internal fuel. He got into a fight before he had the chance to run the fuel out. He could stay with a 109 [Annotator's Note: Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighter aircraft] attacking him. Goebel ducked into a cloud bank to hide and burn off fuel. By the time he was ready the sky was empty. His experiment nearly ended in disaster, but he learned a lesson. He was leading the group [Annotator's Note: with the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] one day to Blechhammer, Germany [Annotator's Note: now Blachownia Slaska, Poland]. He got into a fight with a 109. He hit him and the plane disappeared. The natural reaction is to roll. The German had taught himself to hit his stick forward and head to the ground. Goebel caught him and shot him down. He thinks the pilot had been a veteran of the Battle of Britain [Annotator's Note: 10 July to 31 October 1940; Germans include the Blitz, July 1940 to June 1941]. The Spitfire [Annotator's Note: British Supermarine Spitfire fighter aircraft] had a float carburetor and the 109 had fuel injection. The Spitfire's engine would quit under negative Gs [Annotator's Note: a "g" is a measurement of gravity force] and the 109 would not. Goebel chalked one more up to watch out for. You cannot fly combat day after day and not have close calls. Some of the old, experienced guys [Annotator's Note: German pilots] were still flying. A lot of the new guys flying should not have been. You could tell in ten seconds who you were up against. They needed 18 pilots to fly a mission and they had 21. They flew almost every day. About the time Goebel went home, new pilots came in in a deluge. Walt Goehausen [Annotator's Note: US Army Air Forces Captain Walter John Goehausen, Jr.] was in the 308th. They had gone to Southern France one day and they landed in Corsica [Annotator's Note: Corsica, France]. Goehausen landed and showed Goebel a 20mm [Annotator's Note: German MG 151, 20mm aircraft mounted autocannon] hole in his flap and leading edge from 109s. Two 109s had been chasing him and he went straight down. He pulled up right before a lake. On his camera, they could see two rings where the 109s went in.

Robert J. "Bob" Goebel feels it was not a big deal to become an Ace [Annotator's Note: military aviator credited with shooting down five or more enemy aircraft in aerial combat]. It was something he wanted to do all along. That is the first step up the ladder for a fighter pilot achievement-wise. There was not a great show of congratulations [Annotator's Note: in the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force]. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer has to remind Goebel of which mission he became an Ace on.] It was the 3 July 1944 mission to Friedrichshafen, Germany. Goebel was coming back across northern Italy and spotted a single aircraft. He hopes whatever the pilot was doing was worth it because it cost him his life. Goebel was leading a flight of four and dropped down into the aircraft's blind spot. He got close, squeezed the trigger, and nothing happened. He was in camera only mode. He fixed it and opened fire at 80 rounds per second of the six .50s [Annotator's Note: Browning ANM2 .50 caliber machine gun]. Great chunks were flying off the plane and he was in danger of hitting him. He looked down and could see the pilot slumped over. On the way home, Goebel was thinking about the damage to the aircraft. He had gotten so close that the coolant and oil had coated his windscreen. He had to crank the canopy back and look out to be able to see. The crew chief had to wipe the airplane down for three hours. Goebel had his five [Annotator's Note: combat kills]. His tenth was the last of the three planes he shot down. The tenth went into a wheat field in Romania. For his 11th, there was a Major who had flown Spitfires, but did not fly regularly. He had no victories and wanted one before going home. Molland [Annotator's Note: US Army Air Forces Major Leland Phillips Molland], the squadron commander, asked Goebel to take him on his flight. They went to Wiener Neustadt [Annotator's Note: Wiener Neustadt, Austria]. They saw a V-formation of 109s [Annotator's Note: Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighter aircraft] and Goebel dove into them. He took the left one and told C.D. Lewis [Annotator's Note: phonetic spelling; unable to verify identity] to take the next one. He got his victory or claimed to. When his film came back, he had fired all his ammunition in one burst. The guns were so hot the tracers were going in circles.

Robert J. "Bob" Goebel's last mission [Annotator's Note: with the 308th Fighter Squadron, 31st Fighter Group, 12th Air Force] and coming home was traumatic. When you live with men and risk your life with them every day, it is a different life. You build up a sense of belonging and camaraderie. Leaving all of that behind to go home, he was happy to see his folks and his wife. He had nothing in common with the people. He was homesick for combat, and it took him a long time to accept that it was over. He was assigned to a training slot. He missed it. He talked to someone else who said the same thing happened to him. The war was still on in October 1944. He spent a week in Miami [Annotator's Note: Miami, Florida] at a rest camp with his wife. He was then assigned to Waycross, Georgia teaching fighter tactics until the war was over. He got out and went to the University of Wisconsin [Annotator's Note: unable to identify which campus in which city]. Goebel was married just before he went in, and he had children. It was hard to leave them but waiting for him was an adventure he had looked forward to. The adjustment from fighter pilot to fatherhood affected the way he brought his children up. They had nine. They are all good kids and have their own families. One retired from the Air Force and flew two tours in Southeast Asia [Annotator's Note: Vietnam War, or Second Indochina War, 1 November 1955 to 30 April 1975]. His combat training conditioned him as a father. Whether that was for good or bad, he does not know. Goebel says it is all fair and well to stand in front of people and tell war stories. What does not come through, are the ones who are not standing alongside and who cannot talk anymore. There are a lot of them buried over there. The price was high. If we forget that, we are missing the lesson. It was a tough business. They did it because they believed in this country. That degree of patriotism is gone now. He does not think we forget it. He is thanked for what he did during World War 2. They understand. When escorting bombers, they would fly two to three thousand feet above them and fly to match speeds to form an umbrella. The threat usually came from above.