Ivan Bodis-Wollner was born in October 1937 in Szeged, Hungary. The first registration on his mother's side for noble-ization [Annotator's Note: he means "ennobled" or giving a noble rank or title] under Franz Josef [Annotator's Note: Franz Joseph I, or Francis Joseph I, Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary] was in 1910. The first registration of the family is in 1794 in Szeged. They probably go back earlier, but they did not register Jews before Joseph II, the Hapsburg Emperor [Annotator's Note: Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor and ruler of Hapsburg]. They were an upper middle class, ennobled Jewish family. His father's side is the Wollner. His grandfather was kicked out of Transylvania [Annotator's Note: historical region] after the Romanians took over. He settled near Szeged and created a lumberyard and cement factory. He is a character in a famous novel [Annotator's Note: the author and title are unintelligible even for phonetic spelling]. His grandfather eloped with the daughter of a landowner. They had converted to Judaism in the Counter-Reformation [Annotator's Note: movement in the Roman Catholic Church in the 16th and early 17th Centuries]. A group of villagers in that part of Hungary became Jews but were not accepted by the Jewish community. [Annotator's Note: Bodis-Wollner explains more of what he calls his "complex background."] The house where Bodis-Wollner grew up was erected in 1867 to 1870 by his great-grandfather. The house was in the center of the city. He played in the park by the museum. He is Jewish, from the inner city of Szeged. His family was standoffish and they did not socialize with Jews who were common people. He did not grow up under the Jewish faith. His parents divorced and he had to follow the religion of his father, which was Catholic. After the concentration camp [Annotator's Note: Bodis-Wollner was sent to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp near Bergen, Germany in 1944], he came home and entered the second grade because his grandfather had taught him how to read and write. His school was heavily Catholic. At school, he asked a priest if it was a sin to kiss the hand of his Jewish grandfather. The priest said it would be a sin if he did not.

Ivan Bodis-Wollner remembers when he was playing with an older child who was the son of a local lawyer. The child's father became a proto-Communist after the war. During the war, Bodis-Wollner was telling him it was wonderful that the Hungarian troops were winning in Russia. He said it was not good for them and told him to ask his family what it meant. In March 1944, Bodis-Wollner looked out the window and saw German trucks and tanks outside of his house. The general feeling at that time, was not discussed with him. His family was anti-Communist and anti-Russian. Bodis-Wollner did not consider it liberation. On 19 March 1944 when Germany occupied Hungary, Bodis-Wollner was taken into a ghetto in Szeged [Annotator's Note: Szeged, Hungary]. They thought it was miserable but, compared to Bergen-Belsen [Annotator's Note: Bergen-Belsen concentration camp near Bergen, Germany], it was luxury. In the ghetto, they were separated into train cars used for transporting cows. It was a hot summer. When he had to go to the bathroom, his grandfather held him up outside the door. It was a long trip. They were taken to Strasshof [Annotator's Note: Strasshof concentration camp, Strasshof an der Nordbahn, Austria] near Vienna [Annotator's Note: Vienna, Austria]. In Strasshof, they were distributed into groups. His family worked on the river. They were put in a house that was the former Jewish community center. Bodis-Wollner became ill, and, in his delirium, he wanted to jump out of the window. There was no water in the house. He and other children would get it from the square. This was like the arrangement in "Schindler's List" [Annotator's Note: 1993 American historical drama film based the novel "Schindler's Ark" by Thomas Keneally; an Australian novelist]. They were taken to Strasshof because his family was not profitable. His grandfather had diseases and his great-grandmother was diabetic. Only his grandmother and mother were workers, so they were taken away. From there they went to Bergen-Belsen by train unsupervised. They knew Jews were orderly people. Escaping would not have done much good. From one train station to the other, they were completely free. They traveled on regular city tramways which had the windows painted.

Ivan Bodis-Wollner does not remember arriving at Bergen-Belsen [Annotator's Note: Bergen-Belsen concentration camp near Bergen, Germany] clearly. He remembers his grandfather who taught him to read and write. He slept in bunk beds with his mother. They were counted several times a day. They stood in mud. In the bunk beds, his grandfather discovered something from someone who said they were waiting for trains to take them to Switzerland. Bodis-Wollner learned later that Himmler [Annotator's Note: SS Riechsführer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler; senior member of the Nazi party] was using that to enrich his own power. It was being done with Himmler through a Hungarian Jew [Annotator's Note: Rezső Kasztner, also known as Rudolf Israel Kastner; Hungarian journalist and lawyer]. After the war, Kasztner was accused of collaborating with the Nazis and a Jewish fanatic killed him [Annotator's Note: on 4 March 1957]. Bodis-Wollner's impressions of Bergen-Belsen are all unpleasant. He could not eat what they were being fed. The food was roots. There was some bread, and his grandparents gave him theirs. Later, he yearned for roots because they had nothing to eat. His grandfather was appointed commander of the barracks and got more bread than others. Bodis-Wollner got German measles [Annotator's Note: or rubella, a viral infection]. He was taken to a Red Cross hospital where he got milk. There was a girl there too. His mother only knew he was taken there. An SS [Annotator's Note: Schutzstaffel; German paramilitary organization; abbreviated SS] soldier guarded the camp and smuggled out his mother to visit him during the night. They were separated from the next camp that was not for Jews that made or repaired shoes [Annotator's Note: called the "shoe commando"]. Bodis-Wollner snuck under their barb wire and stole some clogs to take to his mother. Bodis-Wollner felt a little bit freer by doing things like stealing the clogs.

Ivan Bodis-Wollner was put on trains and taken from Bergen-Belsen [Annotator's Note: Bergen-Belsen concentration camp near Bergen, Germany] to the northeast. He cannot imagine why the Germans devoted locomotives to moving them. Someone must have decided they were worth money; possibly Himmler [Annotator's Note: SS Riechsführer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler; senior member of the Nazi party] himself. The train was moving towards the east. There were two cars with antiaircraft guns. This was around March 1945. There were not even roots to eat. One day, the SS [Annotator's Note: Schutzstaffel; German paramilitary organization; abbreviated SS] soldiers disappeared. They went out to find food. His grandfather went one way and Bodis-Wollner went with his mother. Order was broken down. Begging was not unsuccessful. He saw a German soldier take off his uniform. Tanks were coming down the street [Annotator's Note: in Farsleben, Germany on 13 April 1945]. They were American tanks [Annotator's Note: from the 743rd Tank Battalion]. Bodis-Wollner learned from a book that those were Patton's [Annotator's Note: US Army Lieutenant General George S. Patton, Jr.] troops who went against Eisenhower's [Annotator's Note: General of the Army Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force; 34th President of the United States] orders and liberated them. They were put in a city called Hillersleben [Annotator's Note: Hillersleben, Germany] and into an apartment. The village was taken over by the British and French for a short time and then the Russians came and took away their food. His grandfather got them, and they escaped from the Russians to go to Hungary. He remembers traveling on top of coal. He took a book from the apartment that showed the German language with pictures. They bypassed Dresden [Annotator's Note: Dresden, Germany]. They could see the smoke still [Annotator's Note: from the Allied firebombing of the city]. They went to Prague [Annotator's Note: Prague, Czechoslovakia; now Prague, Czech Republic] and got some support from a Jewish group who put them on a proper train. He remembers the Danube [Annotator's Note: the Danube River] and the fresh air. The beginning of life. In Budapest [Annotator's Note: Budapest, Hungary], his father was hoping to get back his mother [Annotator's Note: they had divorced]. His mother married a Doctor Bodis. After a while, he and his grandparents made it to Szeged [Annotator's Note: Szeged, Hungary; Bodis-Wollner's hometown].

Ivan Bodis-Wollner's father converted to Catholicism at some point. By Hungarian law, as an under-aged child, Bodis-Wollner became Catholic too. He had little contact with anybody else but his classmates. He had some Jewish friends as well. His mother's side of the family did not communicate with other people. He grew up that way and was disdainful of most people, Jewish or not. After the war, they got back a small portion of their house. He went to school and church. He was not very religious. His grandfather was a lawyer and a Reserve officer in the Hungarian Army. He was forbidden to practice law because he had defended someone later accused of being a Nazi. He was described as a Fascist. His grandmother had to earn money. Money was in short supply, but they could eat. Hungary had a coalition government. The Communists handled internal affairs like police and finance. Slowly they managed to get rid of the landowner's party and they became completely dominated by the Communists. The Russians dictated things from Moscow. Bodis-Wollner was anti-Communist and took part in the 1956 revolution [Annotator's Note: Hungarian Revolution of 1956, or Hungarian Uprising, 23 October to 10 November 1956]. The Russians crushed the elected government. Bodis-Wollner was part of the armed national guard and the student organization. He made a speech that was anti-Communist and anti-Russian.

In the summer before the October revolution [Annotator's Note: Hungarian Revolution of 1956, or Hungarian Uprising, 23 October to 10 November 1956] took place, the government shut down a publication in Budapest [Annotator's Note: Budapest, Hungary]. At one point, Ivan Bodis-Wollner was visiting a professor in China. In the summer of 1956, everything was shut down as much as possible by the Communists. Bodis-Wollner had graduated from high school. He was always good. His entering university was tricky because he did not have the right background. He did not come from the right classes of people. He was lucky because his classification was changed by his mother's husband, a doctor who delivered the children of the local Communist leaders. He entered as a medical student in 1956. Szeged University [Annotator's Note: University of Szeged in Szeged, Hungary] had a huge auditorium where students were gathered [Annotator's Note: on 16 October 1956]. Flyers were circulated so that the students were quite informed. When a talk was being given, someone screamed "but there is God." The Communists had made a mistake putting all of the students in one place. The association was named MEFESZ [Annotator's Note: Union of Hungarian University and Academy Students]. MEFESZ had a Budapest person as the head. They had the revolution of 23 October [Annotator's Note: 23 October 1956]. MEFESZ had demands for the Party and read them at a public statue [Annotator's Note: statue of Józef Zachariasz Bem, a national hero of Poland and Hungary; Bodis-Wollner's story gets hard to follow]. The crowds grew around the statue. Villagers came, workers came, and the crowd organized at the Party house. Bodis-Wollner was in the third row. The secret police [Annotator's Note: Hungarian State Security Police, known as the AVH] were ordered to occupy the center of the city. They shot at the students. The bullets were not fake. A friend of his was killed. At the university, MEFESZ was diminished very much. They went to get the guns from the ROTC [Annotator's Note: Reserve Officer Training Corps]. Bodis-Wollner said no. They did not like that. Bodis-Wollner took a gun. The 23 October revolution was successful, and the Russians started to withdraw, but they came back on 4 November [Annotator's Note: 4 November 1956] with big tanks. Bodis-Wollner made some speeches on 7 November [Annotator's Note: 7 November 1956], then, at his mother's insistence, he left on 10 November [Annotator's Note: 10 November 1956].

It was a relatively small crowd at the University [Annotator's Note: University of Szeged in Szeged, Hungary] when Ivan Bodis-Wollner suggested they occupy the radio and broadcast their plight to the world. He talked about the Fascists. He did not want to leave. He only took his button football [Annotator's Note: football simulation game] in a tin box. He thought he would return. He was excommunicated as a student. The way was open for the machine [Annotator's Note: slang for the Communist Party government] to do what they wanted with him. They could put him in the Army at best, or in a concentration camp in Hungary for the enemy elements. Bodis-Wollner went across the border into Yugoslavia. Doctor Bodis [Annotator's Note: Bodis-Wollner's stepfather] organized for two Hungarian policemen to accompany him. They told him not to run. On the other side, the head of the secret police [Annotator's Note: State Security Service, known as UDBA, Yugoslavia] was there and took Bodis-Wollner in his Mercedes to warm imprisonment. He was under the care and supervision of the Bodis's. The radio in the Mercedes was on, talking about the Hungarian Prime Minister [Annotator's Note: Imre Nagy]. When the Russians came, he found refuge in the Yugoslav embassy [Annotator's Note: Embassy of Yugoslavia in Budapest, Hungary]. He was then given to the Russians who executed him [Annotator's Note: on 16 June 1958]. [Annotator's Note: The camera moves and has to be adjusted.] Bodis-Wollner stayed in Yugoslavia for a month. He had cousins there and he enjoyed life. The Bodis family was friendly with a Jewish family who suggested he take a train from Belgrade [Annotator's Note: Belgrade, Yugoslavia; now Belgrade, Serbia] to Vienna [Annotator's Note: Vienna, Austria]. He had a Hungarian passport. He arrived in Vienna and registered as a refugee student. On the sleeping car, he had awakened at Zagreb [Annotator's Note: Zagreb, Yugoslavia; now Zagreb, Croatia]. In the film, "From Russia With Love" [Annotator's Note: 1963 spy film in the "James Bond" film series], there is a scene at Zagreb station. That was very familiar to him. His escape from Hungary could not have been more civilized.

The Austrians registered Ivan Bodis-Wollner and others and put them in a dormitory. They were later moved into a posh neighborhood. They were put in a villa that had been occupied by the head of the Hitler Jugend [Annotator's Note: Hitler Youth; youth organization of the Nazi Party for young men]. The villa had water. Bodis-Wollner occupied the room in the tower. He obtained a Rockefeller scholarship [Annotator's Note: Rockefeller Foundation College Scholarship]. He had an uncle who left Hungary in 1947 and went to Caracas [Annotator's Note: Caracas, Venezuela]. The uncle left there when the Communists took over Cuba and went to the United States. He visited Bodis-Wollner in Vienna [Annotator's Note: Vienna, Austria] and gave him money every month. Bodis-Wollner was not thinking much at the time. He dealt with life as it came. His ties to Hungary were strong because of his mother. His grandfather was killed in 1958 by a Russian soldier who beat him up. His wife then died. Bodis-Wollner entered the university in Vienna [Annotator's Note: Medical University of Vienna in Vienna, Austria] as a medical student. He had to learn German. He did not have to show up for lectures and he did not want to. He had to buy the notes of the class.

In 1961, Ivan Bodis-Wollner visited his girlfriend and applied to go to medical school in the United States. Cornell University [Annotator's Note: Cornell University in Ithaca, New York] offered him a scholarship. He came in the Fall of 1961 with an immigration visa. He started school in 1961. The food he loved was fresh corn, good watermelon, and morning sausages. He loved the culture of things going on in New York [Annotator's Note: New York, New York]. He had a bicycle and would go from Cornell to the village [Annotator's Note: Greenwich Village; a neighborhood in New York, New York]. He would bicycle in Times Square [Annotator's Note: area in Manhattan, New York, New York]. He does not feel that the Americans knew anything about where he was from but were polite and pretended to. Most Americans do not know the difference between Bucharest, Romania and Budapest, Hungary. They are just polite.

[Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Ivan Bodis-Wollner how he would say World War 2 affected his life.] For Ivan Bodis-Wollner, that is a very big question. It did not start with the beginning of World War 2 and World War 2 did not start in Hungary. But Hungary participated in the campaign against Russia. The order where education and manners counted, slowly disappeared under Communism. That affected him a lot and still does. On a practical level, it affected him because his family was cultured and relatively wealthy. They maintained a social structure. His great-grandfather was very interested in sports, founded an athletic club, and created the stadium in Szeged [Annotator's Note: Szeged, Hungary]. The stadium was turned into a field of strawberries. The social order under which Bodis-Wollner was born, no longer existed under Communism. The Second World War has left a number of changes in the whole world. The changes in Hungary were related to the occupation by the Soviets. Accepting what they dictated as culture, was impossible for him. Communism is evil. It is an organized, anti-cultural movement. Bodis-Wollner is not happy with any system that emphasizes large crowds. He is more in favor of individuals who make up their own minds, even though he was instrumental in the large-crowd movement in 1956 [Annotator's Note: Hungarian Revolution of 1956, or Hungarian Uprising, 23 October to 10 November 1956]. Being in the revolution was a high point for him. Bodis-Wollner thinks it is important to teach about that period of time to future generations. Many people are naive who have not been in that period and are crying about Nazis and Fascists in American politics, have no idea what it was really like. They do not realize that those people killed [Annotator's Note: their political enemies]. You can say whatever you want, but if you start killing, that is different. There is a lot more to say, smaller stories that are perhaps revealing of what went on. His grandmother earned money sewing buttonholes after his grandfather was barred from practicing law. She liked earning money, but she did not like the rude, vulgar language people used.