Erna Louise Deiglmayr was born in Antwerp, Belgium. She had a close family. Her mother was one of many children. She does not remember much but she was very attached to some people. Her father was a merchant. Deiglmayr was born before World War 1 but she only remembers things she was told about it. She was one of the youngest ones of the family. In general, soldiers do not do anything to children. Between the wars, in 1923, the market was poor. In 1927 and 1928, there was a Depression. She went to school and was told to be very careful. She was an orphan so to speak at that time. She did field work. She graduated and found employment. She spent some time in Germany and England to get better educated. For her, being in other countries was natural. It was not extraordinary. Americans do not travel as much. She lives in Louisiana now and Belgium would fit into a third of Louisiana. In one-third of Louisiana are three times as many people as a whole. She did not use a car in those days. You go on a train wherever you go. There is a train every 20 minutes. Deiglmayr did fieldwork in Berlin [Annotator's Note: Berlin, Germany] before Hitler [Annotator's Note: German dictator Adolf Hitler] came to power. Traveling was not a problem. She was in Czechoslovakia when the Germans invaded [Annotator's Note: on 15 March 1939]. She always knew what was going on in Berlin [Annotator's Note: Deiglmayr is referring to the seat of German government]. Some of her friends came back to Belgium. You did not stay if you were anti-Hitler. They knew Belgium could not resist the German Army. Deiglmayr started working for the Belgian State Employment Office before the German invasion. She was lucky that the social work was directed by the Legal Department. She got the job and she had to make it what it was. She started as a clerical female. Everyone had a different skill and did the recruiting for that. People would use her office to find work.

The German invasion of Belgium came overnight on 10 May 1940. Erna Deiglmayr heard the radio announce the invasions of Belgium, Holland, Denmark, and France. The military men were to report to duty. If you were very fast and had the means, you would try to go to England. After a day or two, the Dutch people came running into Belgium to go to the South of France where the Germans did not invade. Many did not make it. The Germans followed the road. Belgium is a small country. Stukas [Annotator's Note: German Junkers Ju 87 Stuka dive bomber] would bomb the travelers. Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium] was bombed early in the morning. They had to turn in their cars. They [Annotator's Note: the Germans] bombed the airport and hit the big mental institution that was next to it. The mental patients were out on the streets then. Everybody was waiting regarding what to do. The population was ordered to stay indoors for 72 hours. Deiglmayr remained with her friend whose daughter had been rescued from the hospital by great effort. They went into a building that had a big coal basement and stayed there 72 hours. It was not a huge bombing of Antwerp because the Germans did not want to destroy it. The German Army and supply people came in full speed and went straight to the docks. Since she had lived through World War 1, she was prepared. You do not put anything in writing. You do not talk if you do not have to. You observe and do not let others observe. People behave differently. You just want to know if others are okay. She knew she was going to be in an occupied country. Most Belgians did not speak German, but she did. Antwerp is a Flemish city and French. They have patois [Annotator's Note: the dialect of the common people of a region that differs from the standard language]. She was in the employment office and had contact with many people. Her ex-girlfriends were all gone, and she did not know where they ended up. They did not have to register but they registered themselves, mainly the children so they did not get lost. The first few weeks they brought in higher grade military. They were very polite. Deiglmayr kept her bicycle. If the Germans were abrupt with her, she would speak German and they would get attentive. The Belgian military gave up [Annotator's Note: on 28 May 1940]. The soldiers came home instead of being prisoners. The Belgian police still patrolled the city. In Antwerp, the Germans would get out of the way and let them pass. Deiglmayr spoke to a German soldier who had never seen a banana. It was a mixture in their ranks too. The first German troops that came into Antwerp, Belgium were better behaved than the later troops. Deiglmayr went and took pictures of them at the docks taking things. A German soldier tapped her on the shoulder. He was interested in her camera and not what she was doing. That was one of the advantages of her speaking German. The Germans emptied the dock area mostly of food. The civilian population tried to buy as much as they could. The stores were emptied fast. That was hard for people with restricted means. They got a very well-organized black market going.

[Annotator's Note: The interviewer mentions a book about Erna Deiglmayr titled "Erna's Children: Rescuing the Youngest Victims of World War II" by Bill Penick, 28 August 2012, that describes some of what she was able to do working in the Belgian State Employment Office.] That was a gradual thing. First you had to know who you were talking to. She knew that to save all of the Jewish people she knew, she had to destroy their records. The average person knew very well what happened to the Jewish people in Germany. They were getting away as fast as possible. Those were assimilated Jewish people, it does not matter that they may be Jewish. Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium] had many Polish Jews who had come in after the invasion of Poland. They were mostly poor people. They tried to be as quiet and move as little as possible. People were circulating as usual. She would have to determine who was in danger to know what records to destroy. Where she worked, it was strictly about employment. People would come and say they needed work. She had many contacts with employers from factories with several hundred people. They knew the trades and skills of the people and she would find out what the employers needed. She does not recall the first record she destroyed. Some colleagues fell apart completely because they thought it was the end of the world. She thought of her own personal friends first. She thought maybe her dentist had a Jewish background and made his records disappear. The records were only small cards. She was not scared. The Germans did not come in the office. She always very polite to the Germans who were busy getting oriented. They mainly set up offices in Brussels [Annotator's Note: Brussels, Belgium], the capital. They gave instructions and demands. They were smart and were polite. They did not do things with a gun. That allowed Deiglmayr time. They made stamps [Annotator's Note: instrument for stamping a pattern or mark] out of potatoes to stamp the records. Deiglmayr also had a gradual involvement with the Belgian underground [Annotator's Note: Belgian Resistance, collective term for several resistance movements]. There has to be someone with whom you had contact before, and you knew which direction they were thinking. She knew many people and the way they handled things. The office was a good place to be because so many people came through. She also knew people from the unions. The contact would come one by one. One of her first jobs was to support people before they get completely out. If they were active in the underground already, or had to disappear, they would be without any means. They lived on a day-to-day basis. She would direct these people to a particular house and give them an envelope of money. [Annotator's Note: Deiglmayr describes the coded language they would use for this.] This was maybe two or three times a week; sometimes two or three per day. She was working her regular hours.

[Annotator's Note: The interviewer remarks that Erna Deiglmayr was risking her life to help Jewish people in Belgium during the German occupation there.] She did not look at that. She had to find out things. The Germans wanted everything to be normal. They did not close the stores and more. Not having cars and then later, food, was a problem. The black market started up. She found a farmer that she had to go to on her bicycle to get a quart of milk. It was five miles away. She did not take part in meetings with resistance leaders. They would use numbers for letters, and they used her name for a code. There were no packages, only envelopes with money. She did not know the main person involved. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer remarks that she escorted children from the city, but she says that was much later.] One of the early things was when they started recruiting for workers in Germany. There were people who had run out of money. The medical office was close to the employment office. She offered her services to them because she spoke German. She would go to the people in line and ask in Platt Flemish [Annotator's Note: a crude form of the language], which they spoke, if they really wanted to go. They were going to work for Hermann Goering [Annotator's Note: German Reichsmarschall Hermann Wilhelm Göring, or Goering, commanded the German Air Force and was second only to Adolf Hitler in the Nazi chain of command], he was the big shot. He wanted the dock workers and diamond workers. There were two German doctors who did the exams. She had to write down the exam results. The Germans did not like flat feet or venereal disease [Annotator's Note: sexually transmitted disease] of any kind. She was also there to find out what the Germans did not want. That did not last long, a few thousand workers hired, in a small office the Germans had confiscated.

There were no SS [Annotator's Note: Schutzstaffel; German paramilitary organization] in the office where Erna Deiglmayr worked for the Belgian State Employment Office. In the beginning, the Germans wanted to be as nice as possible. They were not rude. The idea was to be nice. Nice meant hardship. People were coming to prove that they could not work. They had ambulances coming every day because people had to come and prove that they were sick. Some were very sick. There was not a lot of refugees coming into Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium]; there were more trying to get out. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Deiglmayr when the Germans started keeping an eye on her.] She does not know. She had to be careful to avoid some pro-German people. One would come and visit her, she was an opera singer. Deiglmayr would be as polite as she could be. She would bring things to her and found it hard to refuse. She would try to be diplomatic. You get collaborators immediately. She would avoid them; she was more disappointed in them than angry. It was easy to lose contact though. Deiglmayr had a very small apartment in the center of the city on top of a small store. The doorbell rang and it was a tall, handsome, German officer. Well-dressed and high-ranking. He came to tell her that she could collect some money as an inheritance from her father. She knew he had lost his money after World War 1. This was a distribution from the war and was a large amount. She had to collect it in Berlin [Annotator's Note: Berlin, Germany]. It was a trick; they were very smart. She avoided going. She is sure that they were conscious of her. She did not hear anything after that though. The Gestapo [Annotator's Note: German Geheime Staatspolizei or Secret State Police; abbreviated Gestapo] ransacked another apartment of hers much later after she declined the German union at the employment office. Then she lost her job. They did go in her apartment she was sharing with a friend who had children. What was scary was wondering what they found. Her friend played it beautifully when they asked who visited her and more. What they do is just destroy everything. She had many addresses of contacts she had met during the Winter Olympics [Annotator's Note: 1936 Winter Olympics, IV Olympic Winter Games, Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Bavaria, Germany] who live in what were now occupied countries. They did not find that. It was very frightening. She also had a radio hidden that they did not find.

[Annotator's Note: The interview starts after a tape break with them discussing what to talk about next.] Erna Deiglmayr does not want to be made a hero. She was just as scared as anybody else. She was not scared of the bombing and shooting but was scared as to what they might do to her. During the first few years, there was very little bombing of Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium]. The flights of the British and Americans flying over to go into Germany happened more. The big source of information was the BBC [Annotator's Note: British Broadcasting Corporation]. They acted the same as in World War 1. They had to deliver copper, so they had to give up their stoves for heating. She was wondering if she should stay or leave. She would avoid contact with what she thought was risky. She had nowhere to go that was any different. Belgium is very compact. Her bicycle became very precious. They did not confiscate those. She was helping a lot of people but still had to stay as quiet as possible. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer relates a story he read of her escorting a young girl into France.] That was not in the beginning; that was simply "be at such a place at such a time and you will meet a girl and take her to Paris." It was a question of trust. She would bring papers to a person and just know a name, nothing else. On that trip, many people were made to get off the train at the border and then get back on. She and the child did not know each other but the child had also been told how to behave. Deiglmayr was taken off the train and interviewed. She was anxious but the child did well and got to Paris. She did some other escorting. Generally, she knew where to go. It was nothing unusual. The people being escorted were told to do whatever she said to do.

When Erna Deiglmayr worked at the Belgian State Employment Office, an SS [Annotator's Note: Schutzstaffel; German paramilitary organization; abbreviated SS] woman was brought into the office. She said she was glad to be in Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium], because if she did not perform well, she would be sent to the Polish front. Deiglmayr knew German well and they spoke openly. She wanted to know where she could get things. She had an office there and Deiglmayr put her near so she could hear what was being said. Deiglmayr had a companion who she knew was underground material that she put them at the office. She would tell them what to say to the women who were coming into explain why they would not want to go work in Germany. The SS officer would ask Deiglmayr how things were going in Belgium. [Annotator's Note: The story gets hard to follow at times.] Deiglmayr spoke French and used to visit the factories. The SS officer wanted to go in her SS car. Deiglmayr could not say no but did not want to be seen in the car and with the woman. Deiglmayr says the SS woman was just scared and wanted to do her job well. Deiglmayr wanted her to do her job well, otherwise she would have another SS person there who might be more military. At one time, Deiglmayr was called to the dockworker recruiting office. When she got there, she found out she was there to calm the workers down and tell them to do what they were asked to do. Those were scary moments. Deiglmayr left the Employment Office in the fall of 1942. She knew she should find employment. She had a friend whose father was an ex-Belgian military man who owned a fish mine near the docks. The people working there were mainly women who were from across the river from Antwerp. She had a small office there. The women cleaned herring in a warehouse. Deiglmayr was supervising that they were not taking too many herring home. They would put the herring in their bosoms. Some of them thought they knew her. She needed a job where people did not know her. It was a hard job. The main thing that nobody should know where Deiglmayr lived or what she did. She did not do anything with the resistance during the daytime. There are busy moments and there are quiet moments. She really smelled like fish. There were no new clothes to buy.

Erna Deiglmayr worked at a fish mine [Annotator's Note: a type of fish market and processing place] for several months. A new agency [Annotator's Note: of the Belgian government] was created that was run by anti-German people and called Boerenhulp [Annotator's Note: translates as "Farmer's help"]. It was opened in several places. They recruited among the farmers. Deiglmayr did not do much of that because Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium] has few farmers. Deiglmayr would get the people from Antwerp at a time when there was very little left. It did not matter if you had been middle class, you were not well off. Her office was on the third floor. She had a secretary and social worker. The other people there were volunteers. They would send the children from the city to stay with farmers. After they had their medical exams, scurvy [Annotator's Note: disease caused by a vitamin C deficiency] was all over, she would take them to the farmers. They got no trouble from the Germans. They never did anything to the children that she knows of. She would take the children on the local train, she would just say "kinder" [Annotator's Note: German for "child"] to any German in the way, and they would move. It was a good job for Deiglmayr. She went to see people all the time. Men were being more and more restricted on travel. Deiglmayr could take side roads and buses. Someone in the village would be responsible for the children, usually the church pastor. [Annotator's Note: Deiglmayr explains how she handed off the children, but it is hard to follow.] She and the members of the resistance would just pretend they knew each other and not speak. This was only every so often, otherwise they would be discovered. This work did not have any influence on her work with children after the war. Her main thing here was to get children out of the bombing area. Farmers did not suffer during the war. It was good for the children to be there. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Deiglmayr about a story concerning one particular girl.] She was one of the Boerenhulp children. The children Deiglmayr moved came from somewhere else. The farmer did not want the child and she was told she had to take the child back. It was late so she decided to take her home. Her name was Josette. On the way home, she was very quiet. Deiglmayr knew her father was a disabled mine worker. Her mother was a beggar. Deiglmayr called a friend and told her the girl had impetigo [Annotator's Note: highly contagious skin infection]. The friend had influence in the hospital in Antwerp and they examined her. She had worms and stayed there about four days and then was back with Deiglmayr. Her mother did not want her but came to get money. Josette stayed with Deiglmayr for five years. She had been born in 1940 and was two years old at the time.

[Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Erna Deiglmayr when she knew the war was coming to an end.] The German military became more agitated. Deiglmayr knew the war news from the BBC [Annotator's Note: British Broadcasting Corporation]. In Antwerp [Annotator's Note: Antwerp, Belgium], they saw the planes [Annotator's Note: Allied bombers] going day and night. They had to live in the dark, so no lights shown through the window. Some of the bombings became pretty severe. People were more deprived in general. Antwerp was bombed more severely. She saw dead animals in a fields. The British and Americans had started too late when bombing a factory [Annotator's Note: the Minerva automobile factory; used for repairing Luftwaffe, or German Air Force, aircraft] and hit a populated area and school [Annotator's Note: on 5 April 1943]. They killed a lot of children [Annotator's Note: 209 children were killed]. That was when the Germans started getting nastier. They saw less of them, but they made it harder. They made sure you knew you were in an occupied country. The British came into Antwerp in 24 hours [Annotator's Note: in September 1944]. Seeing the Germans leave made many people smile. They had to cross the river. Antwerp has a tunnel. They did not have time to destroy anything on the way out. The British came in first. The Americans were in France and went into the Battle of the Bulge [Annotator's Note: Battle of the Bulge or German Ardennes Counter Offensive, 16 December 1944 to 25 January 1945]. The Belgian underground was so well-organized that the British could come all the way from the North Sea to Antwerp in 24 hours. It took a while for the British to get into Holland. This meant the Germans were still bombing Antwerp. This was before the V1s [Annotator's Note: V-1 pulse jet flying bomb, German name: Vengeance Weapon 1; Allied names: buzz bomb, doodlebug] and V2s [Annotator's Note: German Vergeltungswaffe 2, or Retribution Weapon 2, ballistic missile]. The British soldiers came in and stayed with the families. Deiglmayr had a caretaker who lived there with her husband and she asked for a soldier. The British would bring their rations in. It was not a lot, but it was something different.

[Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Erna Deiglmayr what it felt like to be free again.] The bombing did not stop. They tried to do as little damage [Annotator's Note: to the city of Antwerp, Belgium and its port] as possible. First the Germans, and then the British and Americans wanted the port. If a bomb hits next to a ship, it damages the ship, but it is still a ship. It was an important port and it saved Antwerp. The Battle of the Bulge [Annotator's Note: Battle of the Bulge or German Ardennes Counter Offensive, 16 December 1944 to 25 January 1945] was to get back into Antwerp. In November, the V1s [Annotator's Note: V-1 pulse jet flying bomb, German name: Vengeance Weapon 1; Allied names: buzz bomb, doodlebug] and V2s [Annotator's Note: German Vergeltungswaffe 2, or Retribution Weapon 2, ballistic missile] started. The first V1 broke a window. Two days later there was not a single window left. The V2 started later. The V1s came at night. The British tried to stop them. You could hear the V1s coming. She always thought it was right above her house. They lived in the basements with tools to get out if necessary. People who were really active in the resistance did not stay home anymore. The V1s were sent every day for five days – then nothing for five days. You did not know when. They came by the hundreds [Annotator's Note: a total of 2,342 fell in Antwerp]. She was going to the country once with a friend. They were safe as there was a British Army unit there. They did not sleep a wink because there were so many V1s coming. After an attack, they would try to contact friends and families to see if they were alright. She did not lose friends or relatives but some were injured. The bombs damaged the buildings.

Erna Deiglmayr tried to contact people she had not been in touch with for a long time when the war ended. She had family quite close to the Battle of the Bulge [Annotator's Note: Battle of the Bulge or German Ardennes Counter Offensive, 16 December 1944 to 25 January 1945]. The Employment Office [Annotator's Note: Belgian State Employment Office] became very active for the Allies. They were now running the port. She went back to work there immediately. The Allies wanted the workers. Everybody wanted to work. Even lawyers wanted to work at the port. It meant you might get something to eat. Supplies did not come in right away. Even what did was being rationed. Only when the war stopped, did the V1s [Annotator's Note: V-1 pulse jet flying bomb, German name: Vengeance Weapon 1; Allied names: buzz bomb, doodlebug] and V2s [Annotator's Note: German Vergeltungswaffe 2, or Retribution Weapon 2, ballistic missile] stop. The V2s were trying to hit the port and did some damage. [Annotator's Note: There is a tape change, and the conversation starts over somewhat.] The Employment Office was used by the British, American, and Australian armies who needed the civilian population to reconstruct things and make life more normal. They recruited hundreds to load or unload trucks, railroad tracks. Railroad was very important. Deiglmayr was contacted for her language skills. She called everybody General. She still had her bicycle. They wanted someone to go with them and show them the docks and Deiglmayr was chosen. She told them they could not go in a car due to the war damage. She asked if they could get a bicycle. She met a British man to do it. They took all afternoon. Everyone was saluting and there was a car waiting. The British man was a big shot.

Erna Deiglmayr visited Bergen-Belsen [Annotator's Note: Bergen-Belsen concentration camp near Bergen, Germany] with UNRRA [Annotator's Note: United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration] in the British zone of occupation. They were in Lubeck in Northern Germany. Transportation was handled by the British, medical by the Swedish, and UNRRA did all of the registration. 10,000 concentration camp people [Annotator's Note: liberated people] went to Sweden. There were mainly women for the interviews. They were assigned a Polish officer as that was the most understood language. Deiglmayr could speak Yiddish, but it was not enough. She told them some stories and that she had worked in Berlin [Annotator's Note: Berlin, Germany]. This was soon after the end of the war. The British took her to Bergen-Belsen. It was already empty. She had seen pictures and heard stories. It was a big place. Some barracks had already been torn down. The showers were still open. The camps were torn down. 10,000 displaced persons went to Lubeck. The medical team consisted of 100 Swedish people including cooks, doctors, nurses, and cleaning women. They were all volunteers. The main thing was delousing [Annotator's Note: ridding them of lice and other parasites] the people. Everybody was a little coo-coo [Annotator's Note: slang for insane or mentally unstable]; four years was a long time. The Swedish team did the delousing. Deiglmayr had to be deloused and it is rough. The concentration camp survivors were human wrecks; they were emaciated. They were given beds and the registration began. Some were physically alright. They could not determine their ages. The British would take them to Malmo in Sweden. After a day or two, they got a Polish officer to help with language. It was very hard. She was not prepared for the conditions of these people. They thought the few Americans were dirty because they did not wash themselves. The Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, and French would be naked and clean using a basin. The Americans would not shower because there was not much water. The work was hard. The food was very organized; they could not be given too much. They all wanted more. To eat too much would kill them.

[Annotator's Note: Erna Deiglmayr was part of a limited United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration, or UNRRA, project in Lubeck, Germany after the war.] She was recruited for a section of the displaced persons camp. [Annotator's Note: Deiglmayr mentions an interview that the interviewer asks her to talk about.] It was not normal living. At Lubeck, the Germans soldiers who came in from Norway, would not admit they had lost the war. So, people were still the enemy. She could feel that. The German population was on the poor side. At one time, British officers invited Deiglmayr and three friends for tea at Travemünde [Annotator's Note: borough of Lubeck on the river Trave], a sea resort. During the formal tea, one officer left. Deiglmayr was intrigued. He went to the shore and was counting the number of bodies floating in from the north [Annotator's Note: the Baltic Sea]. Her work was difficult and unexpected. She had to adjust, learn, and accept things. She had the feeling that it had to be done; she just kept going. Most European people knew about the concentration camps. More so than the British and Americans. There were different kinds of camps. It was amazing how quickly they disappeared. [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks if she helped find homes for orphaned children.] At that time, they did not know anything about that. Lubeck was strictly for concentration camp survivors to go to Sweden. Still working for the United Nations, she was then assigned to Wentdorf [Annotator's Note: Wentdorf, Germany]. She worked with a Belgian social worker, an American officer, and a Belgian secretary. She went as a social worker. They worked with the British Army in the British Zone of Occupation. The person from UNRRA was a very good diplomat and they were accepted by the British who were very formal. The biggest decisions and discussions took place at noon in the dining room. Her team got their own quarters in a house. UNRRA started recruiting more people with different skills. She was lucky they were a little team and were accepted from the beginning. They had to leave where they were and moved into a villa with two or three British officers. They would have cocktails together. They still got rationed foods. She was taking care of displaced persons in that area. They had 12,000 Polish, Ukrainian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian persons, but mainly Polish. They all lived in German houses. There were a lot of Polish from work camps. Her job was to get them back to normal as much as possible. The Polish wanted to repatriate but could not. They had no way to get them there. Others could not go home or did not want to. She was providing for them. It became like a small town. They had to live there.

[Annotator's Note: Erna Deiglmayr worked for the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration, UNRRA, in Wentdorf, Germany.] Deiglmayr resigned several times, but they would not let her go. It was hard work. She was physically and emotionally exhausted. Finally, she said she could not do it anymore. It was hard to be normal. She went home a few times in between. Nils [Annotator's Note: Nils Melin, Deiglmayr's team leader] made sure she made contact with only high-ranking people. She was not allowed to accept any invitation unless it was above the rank of Major. [Annotator's Note: Deiglmayr laughs.] [Annotator's Note: The interviewer asks Deiglmayr how the war changed her life.] Being an orphan and not living in a regular parent-child relationship, she could take things more readily than some people from a more sheltered environment. She would do it again. She could not resist it. She would be interested in what happened to them. She had a satisfaction getting to know people and accepting them. Finding out things that she did not know existed. Getting to admire people and their goodness and their skills. Her Employment Office background helped her a lot. She created that kind of environment right away [Annotator's Note: in the displaced persons camps]. She was teased by UNRRA by them sending her baseballs. Nobody even knew what they were. They got beautiful baseball bats and wondered what they could do with them. They became knitting needles. The Ukrainian women used them a lot. They also got a lot of material from the German Navy like old flags that became clothing and curtains. They made use of what they had. She had to handle difficult situations, like to house two families with only a curtain as separation. She learned so much. There were lots of people with different backgrounds. Some were plain, regular individuals; some poor and uneducated, some rich and very educated. It was a team effort. She wishes people would accept that war is no fun.